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What a darn shame
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Astral Voyager
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:44 pm    Post subject: What a darn shame Reply with quote

If i was a fan of either i'd be jolly disappointed


http://www.birminghammail.co.u.....ld-7451657
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NorthgateRed
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The police. What useless, lazy *beep* they are.
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Ian
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Won't be long until they get their way like this with a cup or even a league match.
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Jim Baker
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it's time to make the plod pay for their errors?

I have no idea what the increased risk for this match was and how reliable the information the police received was but a club is in no position to dispute the police.

If a club thinks that they need, say, 100 officers for crowd control etc and the police state it requires 1000 the police will get their way. No magistrate would ever overrule the police even if there was only a 1% chance of them being correct. He/she would be hung out to dry. But, if the police stated they required 1000 officers on duty and it turned out the only need 100 then the police would pay the extra cost.

It would certainly stop the police from over egging the figures for officers required but safety considerations would still be maintained if there was trouble.

I don't know why I bother stirring things like this as they will never be agreed to. Someone, somewhere will come up with a reason why it couldn't work and the police will still charge for extra officers whenever they want with the line 'information received'.

Jim Baker
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Astral Voyager
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NorthgateRed wrote:
The police. What useless, lazy *beep* they are.


Yep i wrote to Sting on Twitter

Still no reunion BangHead
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Born in Crawley Hospital
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim Baker wrote:
Maybe it's time to make the plod pay for their errors?

I have no idea what the increased risk for this match was and how reliable the information the police received was but a club is in no position to dispute the police.

If a club thinks that they need, say, 100 officers for crowd control etc and the police state it requires 1000 the police will get their way. No magistrate would ever overrule the police even if there was only a 1% chance of them being correct. He/she would be hung out to dry. But, if the police stated they required 1000 officers on duty and it turned out the only need 100 then the police would pay the extra cost.

It would certainly stop the police from over egging the figures for officers required but safety considerations would still be maintained if there was trouble.

I don't know why I bother stirring things like this as they will never be agreed to. Someone, somewhere will come up with a reason why it couldn't work and the police will still charge for extra officers whenever they want with the line 'information received'.

Jim Baker


That's an interesting theory but how can prevention of something be quantified?

It can't. You can't prove a negative.

I don't think the police can't be labelled as 'lazy' here, they've acted on intelligence (understandably this won't be made available to the general public) and made a decision.

The clubs had a choice in the matter and that's the decision they took.
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GillsMan
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NorthgateRed wrote:
The police. What useless, lazy *beep* they are.

This kind of absolute mindless nonsense never ceases to amaze me. Well played.
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TownMeadLeftover
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GillsMan wrote:
NorthgateRed wrote:
The police. What useless, lazy *beep* they are.

This kind of absolute mindless nonsense never ceases to amaze me. Well played.


I assumed/hoped that the original comment was an attempt at humour, although ....
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NorthgateRed
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Astral Voyager wrote:
NorthgateRed wrote:
The police. What useless, lazy *beep* they are.


Yep i wrote to Sting on Twitter

Still no reunion BangHead

laughing7
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Sussex Boy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I think the police should put effort into stopping real danger.
Maybe they could be out there catching terrorists, rapists, thieves!
But no they want to watch a bunch of blokes drink, going to football just in case someone swears out loud or throws a punch!

Football fans, easy target and easy way to make money buy dishing out fines for stupid things!!!
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Jim Baker
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:
Jim Baker wrote:
Maybe it's time to make the plod pay for their errors?

I have no idea what the increased risk for this match was and how reliable the information the police received was but a club is in no position to dispute the police.

If a club thinks that they need, say, 100 officers for crowd control etc and the police state it requires 1000 the police will get their way. No magistrate would ever overrule the police even if there was only a 1% chance of them being correct. He/she would be hung out to dry. But, if the police stated they required 1000 officers on duty and it turned out the only need 100 then the police would pay the extra cost.

It would certainly stop the police from over egging the figures for officers required but safety considerations would still be maintained if there was
trouble.

I don't know why I bother stirring things like this as they will never be agreed to. Someone, somewhere will come up with a reason why it couldn't work and the police will still charge for extra officers whenever they want with the line 'information received'.

Jim Baker


That's an interesting theory but how can prevention of something be quantified?

It can't. You can't prove a negative.

I don't think the police can't be labelled as 'lazy' here, they've acted on intelligence (understandably this won't be made available to the general public) and made a decision.

The clubs had a choice in the matter and that's the decision they took.


You say you cannot prove a negative but without the information you cannot prove anything.

BICH. I recognise the weakness in my argument but something needs to change. At the moment the boy's in blue are running a protection racket. It's the same thing the Kray twins used to get away with.

Knock on the door, we've 'ad a little dickie bird say there's a spot ov bovver headed your way guv. Now, for a small remuneration we can make sure that this tear up don't 'appen. Comprende?

As to having a choice in the matter. What choice? Pay up or pay a fortune to have the decision overturned in court.

I'm not sure what the answer is but having the chief constable knocking on your demanding money with menaces is not the greatest set up.

Jim Baker
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TownMeadLeftover
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I suppose everyone would be delighted if two factions of football 'supporters' kicked off and started punching all and sundry, never mind though the club could ring the Police and see if they could send someone along or, of course, the club could pay for private security and add it to the admission price

Nobody wants the Police until they need them, then they expect everything

* Response to sussexboy
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Sussex Boy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TownMeadLeftover wrote:
And I suppose everyone would be delighted if two factions of football 'supporters' kicked off and started punching all and sundry, never mind though the club could ring the Police and see if they could send someone along or, of course, the club could pay for private security and add it to the admission price

Nobody wants the Police until they need them, then they expect everything

Fist of all, why would the club ring the police? Most of 'hooliganism' happens away from the club/ground!

Also police these days are useless and there is no justice in this country anyway!

But second of all, the point I'm making is that police put a lot if effort into controlling football fans.
A bunch of blokes getting drunk at football and possibly having a fight is totally insignificant when compared to the crime of someone being raped or a terror attack which could possibly cost hundreds if lives!!!

Admin edit: quoting corrected
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TownMeadLeftover
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sussex Boy wrote:
TownMeadLeftover wrote:
And I suppose everyone would be delighted if two factions of football 'supporters' kicked off and started punching all and sundry, never mind though the club could ring the Police and see if they could send someone along or, of course, the club could pay for private security and add it to the admission price

Nobody wants the Police until they need them, then they expect everything

Fist of all, why would the club ring the police? Most of 'hooliganism' happens away from the club/ground!

Also police these days are useless and there is no justice in this country anyway!

But second of all, the point I'm making is that police put a lot if effort into controlling football fans.
A bunch of blokes getting drunk at football and possibly having a fight is totally insignificant when compared to the crime of someone being raped or a terror attack which could possibly cost hundreds if lives!!!

Admin edit: quoting corrected


You've used the word 'most' and I'm not going to disagree with that, but what about when 'most' doesn't come into play, you'll be happy that there's no police presence will you ?

The Police are not useless and there is justice in this country, maybe you should visit a few countries where there is no rule of law and see which you prefer

Would you like all Police duties suspended and have them all sitting round in their stations until a rape or a terror attack occurs ?, you'd be all for hooliganism and violent attacks at clubs and pubs etc, your mates getting their heads kicked in while the Police have a nice cuppa waiting for an Arab terrorist attack ?

Get real
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NorthgateRed
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TownMeadLeftover wrote:
Sussex Boy wrote:
TownMeadLeftover wrote:
And I suppose everyone would be delighted if two factions of football 'supporters' kicked off and started punching all and sundry, never mind though the club could ring the Police and see if they could send someone along or, of course, the club could pay for private security and add it to the admission price

Nobody wants the Police until they need them, then they expect everything

Fist of all, why would the club ring the police? Most of 'hooliganism' happens away from the club/ground!

Also police these days are useless and there is no justice in this country anyway!

But second of all, the point I'm making is that police put a lot if effort into controlling football fans.
A bunch of blokes getting drunk at football and possibly having a fight is totally insignificant when compared to the crime of someone being raped or a terror attack which could possibly cost hundreds if lives!!!

Admin edit: quoting corrected


You've used the word 'most' and I'm not going to disagree with that, but what about when 'most' doesn't come into play, you'll be happy that there's no police presence will you ?

The Police are not useless and there is justice in this country, maybe you should visit a few countries where there is no rule of law and see which you prefer

Would you like all Police duties suspended and have them all sitting round in their stations until a rape or a terror attack occurs ?, you'd be all for hooliganism and violent attacks at clubs and pubs etc, your mates getting their heads kicked in while the Police have a nice cuppa waiting for an Arab terrorist attack ?

Get real

They weren't exactly interested when the Coventry fans invaded the pitch at the Broadfield. Those two officers looked like they were out for a Sunday stroll. Left it all to our stewards. Sterling work.
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