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Good gosh never saw this coming

 
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Astral Voyager
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:40 am    Post subject: Good gosh never saw this coming Reply with quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/28289452
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John The Gas
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: Good gosh never saw this coming Reply with quote

Astral Voyager wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/28289452


You must have poor eyesight 😉


JTG
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Astral Voyager
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: Good gosh never saw this coming Reply with quote

John The Gas wrote:
Astral Voyager wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/28289452


You must have poor eyesight 😉


JTG


I need Ian's glasses

Shocked
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TownMeadLeftover
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know what the actual tipping point was for him to make this rather rash and unexpected decision ?




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thad
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was only ever one outcome that was going to save Scolari...

I think the International Manager's that have been retained since the tournament makes more interesting reading... certainly the Spanish seem to have taken past performance into consideration.
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weststandwatcher
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why on earth would he do that?

Did Brazil have a bad tournament? Laughing
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ant
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

weststandwatcher wrote:
Why on earth would he do that?

Did Brazil have a bad tournament? Laughing


genuinely wonder what the reaction would have been if....

England's best player (Rooney) had had his back broken in a tense quarter final that we still managed to win.

We went into a semi final against Germany with him missing and our captain who had been booked twice. And then lost to a trouncing.

Would the England boys returned home with lots of plaudits? And people bemoning the dirty opponents who broke the back of our best player and helped get our captain suspended
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thad
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All very valid Ant... but isn't the reality that the national expectation in Brazil (set more by politicians & others who stood to gain from the project than by the footballers) was for the delivery of a triumphant home victory in the tournament .. and that - regardless of any other mitigating circumstances - nothing less would ever have been acceptable to them...?

dontknow
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ant
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Undoubtedly they expected to win, fuelled by a nation who overhyped things a bit and not helped by winning the Confederations cup last year.

But the Brazil team always looked fairly ordinary - as indeed did the German team who won it.

Tim Vickery - the BBCs South American football expert summed it up quite neatly for me - he said the nation expected it to go right on the pitch and wrong off it (protests, strikes etc etc) - the reverse was actually true but the Brazilians won't care a jot about that
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weststandwatcher
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ant wrote:


But the Brazil team always looked fairly ordinary - as indeed did the German team who won it.



I would beg to differ on your opinion of the German team looking ordinary Ant.

Tournament football is simply about progressing to the next round, then winning the final They didn't look spectacular. They never do, it would be a waste of effort. They were controlled and focussed and played as a team. This is how Germany played in all 4 World Cup victories and 3 European Championship victories.

Ordinary teams usually get found out and eliminated from tournaments fairly quickly, or humiliated when they meet a quality team.


On the subject of Brazil having 2 of their outfield players missing. Boo bl00dy hoo. That is only 1/5 of the side. They were fortunate to get as far as they did, THEY were ordinary, that is why they lost 7-1 to Germany and 3-0 to The Netherlands.

I cannot think of a single international side that could have beaten Germany in that tournament

Of course, all of that is IMHO
Laughing
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Phil T
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weststandwatcher wrote:
[On the subject of Brazil having 2 of their outfield players missing. Boo bl00dy hoo. That is only 1/5 of the side. They were fortunate to get as far as they did, THEY were ordinary, that is why they lost 7-1 to Germany and 3-0 to The Netherlands.


Was not the full Brazilian defence playing?

Or not as it seems...... Wink

They might have scored fewer without Neymar, but the defence should still have held firmer.
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ant
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I probably used the wrong word by saying Germany were ordinary. They were ruthlessly effienct.

But they have no true global superstars (Neuer/Lahm apart?)but are just a lean mean fighting machine. A team that is better than the sum of its parts

Even their fantastic win against Brazil will be remembered more for the Brazilian abject failure than scintilatting play by the Germans - Schlurre goal apart I'm not sure they had to work that hard for any of their goals.

Did I read in a stat sheet that the Brazilians had almost as many attempts on goal as the Germans dontknow
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thad
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ant wrote:
But they have no true global superstars (Neuer/Lahm apart?)but are just a lean mean fighting machine. A team that is better than the sum of its parts.

Teams that relied on superstars were all found out... The Germans were a just a great example of being a team, everyone knew their role and carried it out... beyond that they were a great squad, they used their subs - U boats? - brilliantly.... and beyond that there was a backroom team that were prepared for anything & everything.... and beyond that was a football culture that they had shaped from root & branch to lead towards this achievement....

...and that is the lesson... if you really want to make things different at a national level you cannot just tinker about with players & formations, you have to be brave enough to challenge the football status quo and patient enough to take a long term view.... vorsprung durch technik...!
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