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European elections
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ant
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 12:40 pm    Post subject: European elections Reply with quote

Here's my quandry. Firstly I always vote. People fought and died to give me the right to express my democratic view. But who for.

Here's my wish list and who would possibly bring me that in the Euros

I am by nature left of centre. (Labour/Green)

I'm in favour of local people making decisions for the community in which they live. If I was Scottish I'd want a yes vote in the referedum. But as I'm English I want a no vote because the alternative could well saddle me with a right wing government for years (UKIP)

In contrast to that, I'm all in favour of closer working relationships with our big continents and allies in Europe (Lib Dems)

I'd like to give the Tories a bit of a kicking but not too much because coalition has at least kept some of their extreme policies in check (Labour/UKIP)

I am not in anyway racist or bigotted but I do believe you have to work for your living and you should get properly rewarded for it. If the best person for the job is a Pole or a Bulgarian, sobeit. Just the same way I have been rewarded previously for working in another country (Lab/Lib Dems)

I quite like coalition government (any of the smaller parties)
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Phil T
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant, looks like the monster Raving Loony party then.....

Wink
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weststandwatcher
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a couple of things Ant.

If people died to give you the right to vote, then that is what it is, a right, not an obligation. Freedom of choice should have been what they were fighting for. (IMHO)

As for who you vote for, well, it boils down to, do you vote for what you actually believe in, or do you vote expediently? My view is that the former is a positive vote and the latter very negative.

As for Scotland...... I have never understood why, if Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales all have their own assemblies, then why doesn't England? If anyone should be voting for independence, surely it should be us! The 4 Assemblies could then meet to discuss/vote on issues that affect us all.

Personally, I would declare the nuclear bases around Faslane a Dependant territory and tell the Scots to s*d off and try and make it on their own without all of the grants from Westminster that keep them going.

As for the election, UKIP will succeed in the European elections but they won't in the national elections. They are 'one trick ponies', much like the Green Party. You are right though is saying that if Scotland votes to go it alone, that Labour will find it difficult to get elected. This, on the whole is a good thing, as it will keep their extreme policies in check. Laughing
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Ian
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greens? Laughing Have you seen the chaos in Brighton lately? Laughing

Labour have gone way too far to the left. Populist soundbites that will ruin the country. Look to France to see what will become of us if Labour win in 2015. Shocked

And goodbye Scotland, I'm afraid. I'd be glad to see them go. A Labour heartland out of the running and a massive cut in tax spend. Why do you think the Conservatives NO campaign is so poor Wink

Oh, and as I said to a UKIP canvasser of course I will be voting for them in the Euro's, but not in any important elections.
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Born in Crawley Hospital
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm left of centre. A very good friend of mine who is further left than me said he is going to vote UKIP as he wants the UK out the EU. He's tried to rationalise his views and I have some sympathy but I could never vote for a part that has so many racist, homophobic and misogynist members. I any case, I am more than happy to be in the EU.

In spite of their poor leadership, I'll be voting Labour. The LibDems have shot themselves in the foot and the wound will take a generation to heal.
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Phil T
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:
In spite of their poor leadership, I'll be voting Labour.


Ah, the "We'll overspend now" party.

Have they admitted that they'll have to put up taxes yet?
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Tonyt
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've had a succession of leaders who overstayed their usefulness incuding Blair and Thatcher followed by a nonentity of a Leader treated in Europe and the World as the village idiot who needs to stay in power with the help of a minority party.

Voting for UKIP will certainly not help and is simply a protest vote.

The German leader Mrs Merkel, an ex-Communist, says what goes in Europe because she does not get involved in rascism, sexism, and religious bigotry and all the other media led diversions. Germans simply get on with the job and don't rely on the old school tie, exclusive clubs, etc.

In order to have a say you have to be a full member and earn repect. This is why Scotland will vote to leave and start to work towards something we will never achieve in the present situation.
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weststandwatcher
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tonyt wrote:
We've had a succession of leaders who overstayed their usefulness incuding Blair and Thatcher followed by a nonentity of a Leader treated in Europe and the World as the village idiot who needs to stay in power with the help of a minority party.

Voting for UKIP will certainly not help and is simply a protest vote.

The German leader Mrs Merkel, an ex-Communist, says what goes in Europe because she does not get involved in rascism, sexism, and religious bigotry and all the other media led diversions. Germans simply get on with the job and don't rely on the old school tie, exclusive clubs, etc.

In order to have a say you have to be a full member and earn repect. This is why Scotland will vote to leave and start to work towards something we will never achieve in the present situation.


Well Tony, your capacity for getting things wrong knows no bounds.

Mrs Merkel has never been a communist. She wasn't even born in East Germany. (She was born in Hamburg) Her family moved to East Germany as her father was a Lutheran pastor and that is where he was asked to serve. Her politics have always been centre right.

My guess is that you have never been to Germany, or at least have little experience of German culture. Germans as a whole adore the 'exclusive club' culture. They can be every bit as 'snobby' as the British. Before you ask, I am half German and have spent quite a lot of time there with my relatives.

I find it amusing that you seem to admire Mrs Merkel (as do I, very much so). Even more amusing is that she is in power supported by a minority party. This is quite common throughout Europe. Given her Centre-Right brand of politics, I'm sure you would be the first to complain if she was in power in this country. Without question, I would vote for her.

You are right in implying that Germans work hard. They also have immigration policies which adhere to the letter of European law, unlike Britain, who bias theirs towards anyone wanting to come here.

As for your belief that Scotland would become a 'full member', given that they want to use our currency, how exactly would they do that? Britain is a net contributor to the EU. One of few countries who are. I would guess that makes us a 'full member'. Thankfully, we didn't join the Euro currency debacle, if we had, I shudder to think of how we would have coped. Probably like Spain...or Greece.
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Ian
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tonyt wrote:
The German leader Mrs Merkel, an ex-Communist,


What the hell are you talking about Tony? She lived in East Germany under communism, but that doesn't make her a communist.

You've lived under Conservative rule, so you must be a Tory Confused
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thad
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weststandwatcher wrote:
Thankfully, we didn't join the Euro currency debacle, if we had, I shudder to think of how we would have coped. Probably like Spain...or Greece.

The Euros are just another example of the Germans being good at starting things off (look what impact their arm-twisting of the EC to recognise Croatian independence had in FYR and is having today in the likes of Ukraine) and getting others to join in under their rules... not too clever when it starts going wrong though... Wink

The question I have for Nigel Farage and his fan club is why they think Scotland should remain part of the UK..? What is the essential difference between them voting to leave the UK and the UK voting to leave the EC..?

dontknow
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Born in Crawley Hospital
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thad wrote:
weststandwatcher wrote:
Thankfully, we didn't join the Euro currency debacle, if we had, I shudder to think of how we would have coped. Probably like Spain...or Greece.

The Euros are just another example of the Germans being good at starting things off (look what impact their arm-twisting of the EC to recognise Croatian independence had in FYR and is having today in the likes of Ukraine) and getting others to join in under their rules... not too clever when it starts going wrong though... Wink

The question I have for Nigel Farage and his fan club is why they think Scotland should remain part of the UK..? What is the essential difference between them voting to leave the UK and the UK voting to leave the EC..?

dontknow


As much as I dislike the very existence of Nigel Farage and everything he stands for I don't really think leaving the EU and Scottish independence can be compared.

Personally, I think isolationists are very shortsighted.
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thad
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:
As much as I dislike the very existence of Nigel Farage and everything he stands for I don't really think leaving the EU and Scottish independence can be compared.

But isn't there a basic dichotomy in their opposition to Scottish independence... while also complaining that EU laws are being forced on the Westminster government...?

scratch
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thad wrote:
Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:
As much as I dislike the very existence of Nigel Farage and everything he stands for I don't really think leaving the EU and Scottish independence can be compared.

But isn't there a basic dichotomy in their opposition to Scottish independence... while also complaining that EU laws are being forced on the Westminster government...?

scratch


He has a point.
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weststandwatcher
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He certainly does have a point, one which is heavily laced in irony. The Scots want 'independence' from a union which has served them quite well, so that they can instead be governed by Brussels, whilst using a currency that is controlled by Westminster.

An truly independent Scotland? It will never exist. They are too small and too inconsequential.
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Phil T
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weststandwatcher wrote:
He certainly does have a point, one which is heavily laced in irony. The Scots want 'independence' from a union which has served them quite well, so that they can instead be governed by Brussels, whilst using a currency that is controlled by Westminster.

An truly independent Scotland? It will never exist. They are too small and too inconsequential.


I thought that they would not be able to join the EU straight away, under current rules?
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