Billy Clifford and who should we retain or release
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#1: Billy Clifford and who should we retain or release Author: Crawley69 PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:02 pm
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I mentioned on the match day thread but it deserves its own thread. For me he is our most accomplished midfielder by a country mile. Most skillful, most mobile , most creative.

I think if he was in a decent team he would excel. No coincidence Collins and the team perform best when he is starting.

He makes mistakes but at least he is always free to take the ball and try something with better players he coulkd really kick on.


Last edited by Crawley69 on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total

#2:  Author: Paul PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:08 pm
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If you're going to sing his praises at least get his name right!!

#3:  Author: Peter PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:43 pm
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Paul wrote:
If you're going to sing his praises at least get his name right!!

Laughing Laughing

For a minute I thought it should have been in the 'Former Reds' thread.

#4:  Author: Red, Red & Red PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:20 pm
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Too inconsistent

#5:  Author: Ashdown Red PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:32 pm
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Red, Red & Red wrote:
Too inconsistent


I agree. He should play every game.

#6:  Author: far2jammy PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:41 pm
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Billy is capable of the killer pass but has had some shocking games as well. He gives the ball away a lot. A luxuary player I wonder if he would be better suited to higher standard. When we started a game early in the season with Banton, Roberts and Clifford I thought we were going to rip teams apart. Sadly the potential there but consistency not.

There are many where I sit that actually think his our worse player. I am not sure in such a physical league we can carry Cox and Clifford in the side.

#7:  Author: AlunLocation: Pound Hill PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:46 pm
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I reckon him. Good player who gets unjustified grief.

#8:  Author: Paul PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:14 am
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He holds onto the ball too long before passing.

Think that was the best I've seen our midfield play for a while, although do think we are carrying Smith at the moment. He's been poor for a good few games now.

Kaby should be one of the first names on the sheet each week, never stops running, breaks up play. No coincidence they scored the winner after Kaby was taken off.

#9:  Author: nemo PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:17 am
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Peter wrote:
Paul wrote:
If you're going to sing his praises at least get his name right!!

Laughing Laughing

For a minute I thought it should have been in the 'Former Reds' thread.

Now I see. Thought this was the start of a Summer transfer thread!

#10:  Author: ElTel PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:39 am
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Paul wrote:
He holds onto the ball too long before passing.

Think that was the best I've seen our midfield play for a while, although do think we are carrying Smith at the moment. He's been poor for a good few games now.

Kaby should be one of the first names on the sheet each week, never stops running, breaks up play. No coincidence they scored the winner after Kaby was taken off.
Put Smith at right back he hasn't the skill to be a midfielder.Everyone seems to love Young but he is just a makeshift fullback I'm sure he could do a better job further forward than the useless Enzio.

#11:  Author: Jim BakerLocation: Worth actually PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:51 am
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I like Billy Clifford. He can see a pass and he has a trick or two to get him out of trouble and the opposition into it.

When he tires in a match he starts to delay the pass and let's the opposition get to him and when we we let a goal in he goes looking for a killer pass every time he gets the ball. Sometimes I wish he would play the way he is facing more.

Yesterday he should have been subbed about ten minutes before he was. He was tired (he hasn't played a full game for a while) and the mistakes were creeping into his game.

I can make a case for nearly all our players to be re signed or kept in etc but that will mean we have the same squad as this season. Is that what people want?

Jim Baker

#12:  Author: NorthgateRedLocation: BW Stand PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:57 am
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ElTel wrote:
Paul wrote:
He holds onto the ball too long before passing.

Think that was the best I've seen our midfield play for a while, although do think we are carrying Smith at the moment. He's been poor for a good few games now.

Kaby should be one of the first names on the sheet each week, never stops running, breaks up play. No coincidence they scored the winner after Kaby was taken off.
Put Smith at right back he hasn't the skill to be a midfielder.Everyone seems to love Young but he is just a makeshift fullback I'm sure he could do a better job further forward than the useless Enzio.

So replace one makeshift RB with another one? Superb. You should take over as manager immediately Rolling Eyes
And if you think Enzio is useless. ......jeez. Out of form, yes. Useless? Behave yourself.

#13:  Author: pedlar PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:58 am
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Billy Clifford simple not good enough.

Loses possession to easily, hasn't got the stamina for league football.


One of many to be ditched at the end of the season.

#14:  Author: Simon PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:02 pm
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The issue with Enzio is that one decent game in 4 isn't what we need.

The defence needs an overhaul as well. Get in a decent LB and RB and some cover at CB. We will always be up against it gifting a goal a game.

#15:  Author: Alex BH PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:18 pm
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Clifford is very frustrating, he tries to play the Hollywood pass too often and gives the ball away too much. He needs to learn to play the simple pass and to keep hold of the ball better. Contrast him with Kaby, who is a technical player who plays the simple pass and who does the simple things well. I think Clifford has a lot of ability, but is lacking experience. A good coach and more experience and he can be a very good player. I think we should stick with him.

#16:  Author: TownMeadLeftoverLocation: South Devon PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:06 pm
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Conor Clifford Rolling Eyes

*beep* at least change the thread title or do you enjoy looking like a dickhead

#17:  Author: NorthgateRedLocation: BW Stand PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:15 pm
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I'm still not sure if he's talking about Conor Henderson or Billy Clifford

#18:  Author: thad PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:24 pm
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When he is not being a flash Harry he can be very good indeed (Billy don't be a hero)... but of our midfield players Kaby is tenacious and effective at his job and IMHO Jordan Roberts is the one who can open up a defence through the middle.

#19:  Author: rubyred PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:07 am
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pedlar wrote:
Billy Clifford simple not good enough.

Loses possession to easily, hasn't got the stamina for league football.


One of many to be ditched at the end of the season.


there are times, not very often where he makes an amazing pass. but yes, as with many of our lot, possession is lost too easily. we simply aren't strong enough and clifford is a good example of that. as for how many to be ditched/sold, everyone and the manager, apart from morris collins connolly cox smith at the minute.

#20:  Author: Simon PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:37 am
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NorthgateRed wrote:
I'm still not sure if he's talking about Conor Henderson or Billy Clifford


The only similarity I can see is that Conor Clifford played in the same team as Billy Clifford after leaving Crawley?

#21:  Author: Sulton111 PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:29 am
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rubyred wrote:
pedlar wrote:
Billy Clifford simple not good enough.

Loses possession to easily, hasn't got the stamina for league football.


One of many to be ditched at the end of the season.


there are times, not very often where he makes an amazing pass. but yes, as with many of our lot, possession is lost too easily. we simply aren't strong enough and clifford is a good example of that. as for how many to be ditched/sold, everyone and the manager, apart from morris collins connolly cox smith at the minute.


you wouldn't keep McNerney then? other than adding him to your list i think you are right with regards who we keep maybe Payne or Roberts if they can prove their fitness as we dont want another Matt Harrold situation

#22:  Author: Crawley69 PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:28 am
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A lot of the squad already have contracts for next season !

I would release all of the below the rest are already signed up other than Clifford who we should certainly retain.

Harold - two years injured
Payne - not fit or mobile enough aka Walton mark 2
Roberts - made of glass
Bantom - I am not sure he has even played for his loan club.
Henderson - 25 if he was going to fulfil potential it would have happened by now
Blackman - an athlete but to inconsistent
Mersin - hasn't looked good enough
Arthur - not good enough
Yowarth - player with most potential but probably best for both he has fresh start .
Bawling - an athlete and honest as the day is long but lacks basic skill at this level
Tazbakhsh - not of the required standard.

Those 11 must account for a third or so of our wage bill so some room to maneuver. The big question is will Erin provide more funds to move us forward and should DD keep his job. He is very fortunate with the patience afforded him this season many manager s have lost their job with better records. Our form has been terrible since January 13 / 45 points available, 3 wins in 15 games , 1 win in 8 at home . whatever way you cut it its been unacceptable. For the large part the football has been dire ads well.

#23:  Author: ukredz PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:37 am
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Despite his injuries Roberts is a must keep. He is our best attacking player.

#24:  Author: Red, Red & Red PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:12 am
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Keep Morris and offer Lewis Young short extention (if hasnt already got one as he gices a *beep* unlike others) ditch the rest. Simples but most importantly sack the dummy.

#25:  Author: notsoLocation: Worth PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:13 pm
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ElTel wrote:
Everyone seems to love Young but he is just a makeshift fullback I'm sure he could do a better job further forward than the useless Enzio.


These are the two who combined superbly for our goal on Saturday. Brilliant play by both I would say.

#26:  Author: Phil TLocation: Ifield PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:15 pm
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notso wrote:
ElTel wrote:
Everyone seems to love Young but he is just a makeshift fullback I'm sure he could do a better job further forward than the useless Enzio.


These are the two who combined superbly for our goal on Saturday. Brilliant play by both I would say.


And Clifford involved positively........

Who'd have thought, eh!

Wink

#27:  Author: Crawley69 PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:18 pm
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Pretty sure Morris and Young are already signed along with McInerney, Connolly Smith Collins, Enzio, Cox ( I hope they get him fit) and Garnet and Lelan ( very poor signing on evidence so far)and Kaby.

Eleven under contract for 2017 /2018. They shouldn't let Drum my make any more signings until we see what happens in the last five games .

#28:  Author: Simon PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:17 pm
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Crawley69 wrote:
A lot of the squad already have contracts for next season !

I would release all of the below the rest are already signed up other than Clifford who we should certainly retain.

Harold - two years injured
Payne - not fit or mobile enough aka Walton mark 2
Roberts - made of glass
Bantom - I am not sure he has even played for his loan club.
Henderson - 25 if he was going to fulfil potential it would have happened by now
Blackman - an athlete but to inconsistent
Mersin - hasn't looked good enough
Arthur - not good enough
Yowarth - player with most potential but probably best for both he has fresh start .
Bawling - an athlete and honest as the day is long but lacks basic skill at this level
Tazbakhsh - not of the required standard.


Agree with this. However Flapper had a 2 year deal so we are stuck unless we find a taker.

I would keep Payne as well.

Presumably Sanchez Watt has gone already?

#29:  Author: Crawley69 PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:32 pm
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If we are going to do anything next year we need a stronger more mobile midfield .Kaby can get about but lacks physical presence . Clifford has the speed and mobility but is an inch taller than Kaby. Payne has some phyicality to him but is so slow the game goes round him.


That tall midfielder Frenchman who played for Orient would be an improvement. For us. Looked strong fit and had some skill and athleticisom.

#30:  Author: Crawley69 PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:40 pm
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ukredz wrote:
Despite his injuries Roberts is a must keep. He is our best attacking player.


Agree pure season and September he looked great but he hasnt registered a performance since Oct let alone a run of games. We signed him from Scottish premier team so suspect he is one of our top 10 earners.

He bareley played for his Scottish team in 2015 / 2016 , we just can't take the risk. I think he maybe. One of those footballers like Bantom who only delivers when everything is perfect , wheather, pitch and fitness.

#31:  Author: Red, Red & Red PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:45 pm
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Phil T wrote:
notso wrote:
ElTel wrote:
Everyone seems to love Young but he is just a makeshift fullback I'm sure he could do a better job further forward than the useless Enzio.


These are the two who combined superbly for our goal on Saturday. Brilliant play by both I would say.


And Clifford involved positively........

Who'd have thought, eh!

Wink
when we got relegated the other players couldnt be seen they couldnt exit fast enough but lewis stayed behind was last off the pitch reemerged and was prepared to face the music talk to fans etc he was clearly upset about going down and ive respect for the gits he has shown not just then but in his efforts and make shift footballing in defence. He deserves consideration for short contract.

#32:  Author: Crawley69 PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:51 pm
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If Young hasn't already signed he will be offered a contract . he has versatility and durability 100 plus games. He has the occasional howler but def improved since he joined. One of the senior players now.

#33:  Author: John The GasLocation: Sunny Horsham PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:02 pm
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Crawley69 wrote:
If Young hasn't already signed he will be offered a contract . he has versatility and durability 100 plus games. He has the occasional howler but def improved since he joined. One of the senior players now.


Occasional howler? Man you are having a chuckle,surely?

Yes, Young has improved this season under the current management, but he is still a liability.

He can't even take a simple throw in - he's been penalised a few times this season - I think the Officials are embarrassed to flag against a professional footballer.But he does clap the Fans !!!

Never a footballer in a million years - Bin him.




JTG

#34:  Author: Red, Red & Red PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:13 pm
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John The Gas wrote:
Crawley69 wrote:
If Young hasn't already signed he will be offered a contract . he has versatility and durability 100 plus games. He has the occasional howler but def improved since he joined. One of the senior players now.


Occasional howler? Man you are having a chuckle,surely?

Yes, Young has improved this season under the current management, but he is still a liability.

He can't even take a simple throw in - he's been penalised a few times this season - I think the Officials are embarrassed to flag against a professional footballer.But he does clap the Fans !!!

Never a footballer in a million years - Bin him.




JTG
he is a footballer no of great std but good enough to be in a league two squad. He has suffered from dreadful coaching under the manequins manageririal term. Can play in number positions and to his credit he tries unlike many others.

#35:  Author: John The GasLocation: Sunny Horsham PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:18 pm
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Red, Red & Red wrote:
John The Gas wrote:
Crawley69 wrote:
If Young hasn't already signed he will be offered a contract . he has versatility and durability 100 plus games. He has the occasional howler but def improved since he joined. One of the senior players now.


Occasional howler? Man you are having a chuckle,surely?

Yes, Young has improved this season under the current management, but he is still a liability.

He can't even take a simple throw in - he's been penalised a few times this season - I think the Officials are embarrassed to flag against a professional footballer.But he does clap the Fans !!!

Never a footballer in a million years - Bin him.




JTG
he is a footballer no of great std but good enough to be in a league two squad. He has suffered from dreadful coaching under the manequins manageririal term. Can play in number positions and to his credit he tries unlike many others.


He can try as much as he likes and he'll still be a Sunday morning Pub player.

It's no coincidence that the opposition seem to ping the ball in the direction of Young, for one reason - He is the weak link, simple.


JTG

#36:  Author: pedlar PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:35 pm
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Totally agree JTG.

Got to go.

#37:  Author: lee 66 PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:57 pm
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pedlar wrote:
Totally agree JTG.

Got to go.


I've come to the conclusion over the last few seasons that there are many players in the lower leagues stealing a living as a full time professional player.We need really to reduce the amount of teams because there clearly isn't enough players of the required standard to go round.

#38:  Author: Sulton111 PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:33 pm
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Lewis young is NOT a defender play him as the winger he is and you will see a different player but DD won't do that as he has nobody else who can fill the void LY would leave

#39:  Author: far2jammy PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:56 am
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Sulton111 wrote:
Lewis young is NOT a defender play him as the winger he is and you will see a different player but DD won't do that as he has nobody else who can fill the void LY would leave


But his crossing is not good enough to be a winger and his scared to shoot. Surprised that some are frustrated at enzo at least his got a goal in him and wins the odd header. I think you need to factor the amount of good balls into him.

#40:  Author: John The GasLocation: Sunny Horsham PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:12 am
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Sulton111 wrote:
Lewis young is NOT a defender play him as the winger he is and you will see a different player but DD won't do that as he has nobody else who can fill the void LY would leave


He's been tried there AND as a wing back - He failed in those positions too !!


JTG

#41:  Author: Sulton111 PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:11 am
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John The Gas wrote:
Sulton111 wrote:
Lewis young is NOT a defender play him as the winger he is and you will see a different player but DD won't do that as he has nobody else who can fill the void LY would leave


He's been tried there AND as a wing back - He failed in those positions too !!


JTG


I don't believe he did fail at least no more than the rubbish that was playing around him for the most part.

Its easy to make Young a scapegoat due to being played out of position but at least he puts the effort in unlike Enzio who only plays when he can be bothered.

#42:  Author: John The GasLocation: Sunny Horsham PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:14 pm
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Sulton111 wrote:
John The Gas wrote:
Sulton111 wrote:
Lewis young is NOT a defender play him as the winger he is and you will see a different player but DD won't do that as he has nobody else who can fill the void LY would leave


He's been tried there AND as a wing back - He failed in those positions too !!


JTG


I don't believe he did fail at least no more than the rubbish that was playing around him for the most part.

Its easy to make Young a scapegoat due to being played out of position but at least he puts the effort in unlike Enzio who only plays when he can be bothered.


I shall try and simplify this for you another way as you don't seem to understand.

Would you employ a cleaner that can't use a dustpan & brush?

NO - So why employ a player that can't play?


JTG

#43:  Author: Crawley69 PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:40 pm
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I think the views of Young are very harsh. He has been one of our better players this season and had some very good games. He obviously isn't the strongest defender but his pace and positioning allow him to do a decent job 7 /10 times. He has an occasional howler but that's the rub with players at this level.

I would def retain him as we aren't going to be able to afford much better and for me left back and a couple of mobile strong midfielders are a priority.

#44:  Author: reigatered PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:04 pm
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Young should only be retained if he is to play wide right in the midfield. He is a liability at full back. In fact we certainly need new full backs on both sides as left back has clearly been an Achilles heal all season.

Regrettably Smith will be back because of his contract, but he is poor at this level. Being earnest and hard running hard and 'delivering a shift' is just not enough. He does not have a killer ball in his locker, constantly passes sideways or back and contributes very few goals really. He is just a workhorse and we will not progress with players like him in the side week in and week out.

Despite his lapses I think that Yorworth is potentially a good footballer. he is young and will mature with age. I would retain him.

Roberts is probably another Harrold. Hardly ever available to play. The management must take a hard look at whether he is fit enough and serious about committing to the club. He seems a bit of a fair weather only type to me.

#45:  Author: pedlar PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:50 pm
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reigatered wrote:
Young should only be retained if he is to play wide right in the midfield. He is a liability at full back. In fact we certainly need new full backs on both sides as left back has clearly been an Achilles heal all season.

Regrettably Smith will be back because of his contract, but he is poor at this level. Being earnest and hard running hard and 'delivering a shift' is just not enough. He does not have a killer ball in his locker, constantly passes sideways or back and contributes very few goals really. He is just a workhorse and we will not progress with players like him in the side week in and week out.

Despite his lapses I think that Yorworth is potentially a good footballer. he is young and will mature with age. I would retain him.

Roberts is probably another Harrold. Hardly ever available to play. The management must take a hard look at whether he is fit enough and serious about committing to the club. He seems a bit of a fair weather only type to me.



I couldn't agree more with your post. Spot on.

#46:  Author: Sulton111 PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:07 pm
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John The Gas wrote:
Sulton111 wrote:
John The Gas wrote:
Sulton111 wrote:
Lewis young is NOT a defender play him as the winger he is and you will see a different player but DD won't do that as he has nobody else who can fill the void LY would leave


He's been tried there AND as a wing back - He failed in those positions too !!


JTG


I don't believe he did fail at least no more than the rubbish that was playing around him for the most part.

Its easy to make Young a scapegoat due to being played out of position but at least he puts the effort in unlike Enzio who only plays when he can be bothered.


I shall try and simplify this for you another way as you don't seem to understand.

Would you employ a cleaner that can't use a dustpan & brush?

NO - So why employ a player that can't play?


JTG


Sorry but i disagree, would you employ a player who only turns up once every 4 games or so? well we do and his name is Enzio we also employ a keeper in Mersin that looks more like a dancer than a keeper

so no i completely disagree

#47:  Author: Paulc222 PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:07 pm
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John The Gas wrote:
Sulton111 wrote:
John The Gas wrote:
Sulton111 wrote:
Lewis young is NOT a defender play him as the winger he is and you will see a different player but DD won't do that as he has nobody else who can fill the void LY would leave


He's been tried there AND as a wing back - He failed in those positions too !!


JTG


I don't believe he did fail at least no more than the rubbish that was playing around him for the most part.

Its easy to make Young a scapegoat due to being played out of position but at least he puts the effort in unlike Enzio who only plays when he can be bothered.


I shall try and simplify this for you another way as you don't seem to understand.

Would you employ a cleaner that can't use a dustpan & brush?

NO - So why employ a player that can't play?


JTG


Could always play him as a sweeper.

#48:  Author: ant PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:31 pm
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pedlar wrote:
reigatered wrote:
Young should only be retained if he is to play wide right in the midfield. He is a liability at full back. In fact we certainly need new full backs on both sides as left back has clearly been an Achilles heal all season.

Regrettably Smith will be back because of his contract, but he is poor at this level. Being earnest and hard running hard and 'delivering a shift' is just not enough. He does not have a killer ball in his locker, constantly passes sideways or back and contributes very few goals really. He is just a workhorse and we will not progress with players like him in the side week in and week out.

Despite his lapses I think that Yorworth is potentially a good footballer. he is young and will mature with age. I would retain him.

Roberts is probably another Harrold. Hardly ever available to play. The management must take a hard look at whether he is fit enough and serious about committing to the club. He seems a bit of a fair weather only type to me.



I couldn't agree more with your post. Spot on.


eh? He's spot on - yet three posts prior to this JTG was spot on according to you when he said Young must go


Nothing like changing your mind to suit the wind.

FWIW - I like Lewis Young. He never shirks or goes missing even when he's having a howler. People forget the good things he's done this season - like his link up play with Enzio at the weekend that led to as good a team goal as we've scored this season



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