England v Wales
Select messages from
# through # FAQ
[/[Print]\]

CTFC.net Fans Forum -> -> Talk football

#1: England v Wales Author: Maidenbower Millionaire PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:40 pm
    —
Some questions for a chat.......

Where you watching it ?

Why you missing it, work , travel ?

Who's gonna win ?


......

I will miss it as I am working.

I predict 2-1 to England

Dele Alli
Harry Kane

#2:  Author: Red, Red & Red PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:46 pm
    —
How many will be phoning in work sick? Sensibly I know some schools are allowing kids to watch it on the tvs there

#3:  Author: thad PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:42 pm
    —
Nearly screwed up big-time.

My mum phoned up with ten minutes to go in the France v Akbania match, so I wasn't really fully concentrating when we arranged to meet up for her birthday meal tomorrow at 1:30...

help

...of course I am totally devoted to her... but it is now re-arranged for an earlier time, I hope the indigestion will be worth it..!

I'm notionally my own boss and naturally will be telling my clients I am working very hard tomorrow & should not be interrupted.

#4:  Author: Sulton111 PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:41 pm
    —
Well i am at work so will not be watching the game although i am sure i'll be glad about it when the Welsh give our sorry lot a right good thumping

#5:  Author: David RLocation: Jeju Island, South Korea PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:40 am
    —
Where I am in the world, I am going to watch it live at 22.00hrs, 3 - 1 England.

#6:  Author: Paulc222 PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:24 am
    —
One of the joys fof being self-employed Smile
Trouble is, no-one pays me for it.

#7:  Author: Phil TLocation: Ifield PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:55 am
    —
As soon as I saw the fixtures I booked the afternoon off, before the significance was realised by my manager. Wink

Pub for me with a few friends!

Very Happy Very Happy

#8:  Author: butlersoftLocation: TILGATE PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:11 pm
    —
I'm "working from home" and have a fictional Dr. Appt at 2:30 which will take me "away from keyboard / unavailable for interruptions from 2pm-3:45.

Beer is in the fridge....

#9:  Author: ArmchairfanLocation: DFS PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:39 pm
    —
I'm watching it at home with my lad, who I will be picking up from school at 1330.
He will be drinking black current juice, me a rather large mug of tea!

How times have changed.
2-1 England

#10:  Author: notsoLocation: Worth PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:04 pm
    —
TV in the board room being tweaked by IT to work around the VPN.

We've also been told we can watch at our desks on the laptops. Unfortunately the VPN stops this.

But the best bit is we've also been told that we can go to a local pub to watch it...........as long as we come back to work afterwards Sad

#11:  Author: NorthgateRedLocation: BW Stand PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:13 pm
    —
Watching at work on my PC Very Happy

Not over confident of an England win Confused

#12:  Author: Sussex Boy PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:54 pm
    —
Wales fans... crybaby2 crybaby2

#13:  Author: srn151161Location: North holmwood PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:05 pm
    —
Well played England..good positive changes by Roy. From now on teams will have to come out to attack us more....onward we go..

#14:  Author: Simon PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:10 pm
    —
Yep, pulled it out the fire at the end.

Shame I don't share the optimism about Roy, he was forced into the changes as Sterling and Kane was just more of the other day.

#15:  Author: allanpLocation: The posh part of Crawley ! PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:13 pm
    —
Not a convincing performance by England as far as I could see. The 'get-out-of-jail' card came in handy.

As usual when we get to a major tournament and the England players think that have a chance they blow it. They are not as good as they think they are.

#16:  Author: Sussex Boy PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:18 pm
    —
allanp wrote:
Not a convincing performance by England as far as I could see. The 'get-out-of-jail' card came in handy.

As usual when we get to a major tournament and the England players think that have a chance they blow it. They are not as good as they think they are.


Totally agree.....but a win is a win and we are top of the group.

#17:  Author: Paulc222 PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:48 pm
    —
Should be enough to see us through even if we mess up the next game. I haven't got the calculator out but I think a minimum of third is guaranteed, and finishing third with four points ought to be enough. First priority - don't lose. Win is a bonus.

#18:  Author: thad PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:00 pm
    —
allanp wrote:
The 'get-out-of-jail' card came in handy.

Get out of jail... or let out on Bale...?

I survived my meal with mother and watching that game, the former was actually more fun than the latter... blimey we made hard work of that match but a win is a win and hopefully this will settle things down and get rid of some of the anxiety & indecision.

Roy seemed to finally see what the rest of us had already spotted from the last match and thankfully he took the required steps to change things. Surely Sterling had already been exposed as a "flat track bully" and should never have started...?

#19:  Author: lochislairLocation: Dunny on the Wold, Hassocks PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:44 pm
    —
We worked hard (again) without being very good. Mind you, France have been no better and are being talked about as potential winners...

No more Sterling, and hopefully Roy has now worked out that it's a bit silly to bring five forwards and play only one up front.

#20:  Author: bridgesboy79 PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:16 pm
    —
For what it's worth, I thought we played well against Russia without getting the win and far less well today. Germany also seem to be huffing and puffing tonight as well but you just know they will find a way somehow.

#21:  Author: WarrenLocation: Spain PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:48 pm
    —
Sneaked the win in the end but deserved it following a dominant display - we never make it easy.

Harry Kane looks absolutely knackered, which is understandable after playing almost every game for Spurs in the last two season and spending last summer playing for the under-21s.

We're back on track and top the group, a win against Slovakia will see the first goal of finishing top achieved.

Kyle Walker our player of the tournament so far, closely followed by Wayne Rooney, IMO.

#22:  Author: Paulc222 PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:53 am
    —
A thumbs up to the officials. When Vardy netted, I just groaned thinking 'offside'. It wasn't until the replay that it was clear to me who headed it down to him.

#23:  Author: bridgesboy79 PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:06 am
    —
I bought it was interesting when Howard Webb appeared on the panel explaining that it is still offside when an opposing player makes contact with the ball when they were not attempting to play it. That certainly complicates the job of officials as it is not always obvious!

#24:  Author: Paulc222 PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:25 am
    —
bridgesboy79 wrote:
I bought it was interesting when Howard Webb appeared on the panel explaining that it is still offside when an opposing player makes contact with the ball when they were not attempting to play it. That certainly complicates the job of officials as it is not always obvious!


I didn't see Howard Webb's appearance but that's how I understand the rule too. I suppose it's about whether it's a totally accidental deflection or just miscued. I think this instance would come under 'miscued' - even though that miscue was caused by the attentions of an England striker.

#25:  Author: josefkLocation: West Stand A90 PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:53 am
    —
Paulc222 wrote:
bridgesboy79 wrote:
I bought it was interesting when Howard Webb appeared on the panel explaining that it is still offside when an opposing player makes contact with the ball when they were not attempting to play it. That certainly complicates the job of officials as it is not always obvious!


I didn't see Howard Webb's appearance but that's how I understand the rule too. I suppose it's about whether it's a totally accidental deflection or just miscued. I think this instance would come under 'miscued' - even though that miscue was caused by the attentions of an England striker.


Me and my lad both called it offside, no deliberate playing of the ball so still offside. I don't think it's difficult to call either, only an absolute lunatic would try to play a back header in that situation and I don't think I've ever seen a defender play a safety header in the position. But that's football, nobody gets it all right all the time.

I thought england battled well against a country with the population of south london and who are known as a rugby nation and their strength and determination saw them through.

#26:  Author: thad PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:01 am
    —
Josef, genuine question: I know the laws have changed and there is a concept of "being active" nowadays, but at what stage - in your opinion - was he offside..?

Subjectively was it only when he actually touched the ball? or in the build-up when he was ahead of the play and in the line of sight of the Welsh keeper, it didn't get flagged, but quite often seems to at that point...?

scratch

#27:  Author: Paulc222 PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:43 am
    —
The laws around offside are sometimes hard to keep up with. I don't think the header was accidental - more the direction of it. But as Thad asks, although Vardy was not in th keeper's line of sight, might he have been close enough to be deemed an interference.
Who'd be a ref?

#28:  Author: James PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:29 am
    —
I'm just glad the insufferable Welsh have piped down.

#29:  Author: JB PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:37 am
    —
Webb is quite right, think about when the pass is played forward and it takes a deflection on its way through. uUp goes the flag for offside and, despite some people shouting "but it came off their bloke!!", it's because of where the offside player was when the pass was played, and indeed because the opposing player's touch was not intentional, that the player is offside.

Yesterday, if the defender's header could be deemed to be accidental, then shouldn't the offside/onside decision be based on where Vardy was when Sturridge played the initial cross in ?

#30:  Author: IanLocation: The Parish of Rusper PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:15 pm
    —
Warren wrote:
Sneaked the win in the end but deserved it following a dominant display - we never make it easy.

Harry Kane looks absolutely knackered, which is understandable after playing almost every game for Spurs in the last two season and spending last summer playing for the under-21s.

We're back on track and top the group, a win against Slovakia will see the first goal of finishing top achieved.

Kyle Walker our player of the tournament so far, closely followed by Wayne Rooney, IMO.


Danny Rose deserves a mention too. Started his Spurs career with a 35 yarder against Arsenal, so always had a lot to live up to. I haven't always been much of a fan, but he has come on leaps and bounds under Poch!

Both Spurs left backs on the field yesterday Cool

#31:  Author: IanLocation: The Parish of Rusper PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:22 pm
    —
JB wrote:
Webb is quite right, think about when the pass is played forward and it takes a deflection on its way through. uUp goes the flag for offside and, despite some people shouting "but it came off their bloke!!", it's because of where the offside player was when the pass was played, and indeed because the opposing player's touch was not intentional, that the player is offside.

Yesterday, if the defender's header could be deemed to be accidental, then shouldn't the offside/onside decision be based on where Vardy was when Sturridge played the initial cross in ?


At the point that the last England player played the ball (Sturridge delivering the cross), no England players were in an offside position, so the intention of Williams is irrelevant IMO.

Not offside for me, though I agree with the deflection argument when the player is offside when it's played by his team mate, but the ball clips an opponents shin or thigh.

#32:  Author: Simon PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:23 pm
    —
Ian wrote:
Danny Rose deserves a mention too. Started his Spurs career with a 35 yarder against Arsenal, so always had a lot to live up to. I haven't always been much of a fan, but he has come on leaps and bounds under Poch!

Both Spurs left backs on the field yesterday Cool


I agree - I thought he might be the weak link with Smalling but he looked good yesterday.

#33:  Author: Simon PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:28 pm
    —
josefk wrote:
Me and my lad both called it offside, no deliberate playing of the ball so still offside. I don't think it's difficult to call either, only an absolute lunatic would try to play a back header in that situation and I don't think I've ever seen a defender play a safety header in the position. But that's football, nobody gets it all right all the time.


I don't really follow how if a defender jumps off the ground in an attempt to win a ball it can be accidental. OK it didn't go where he wanted it to, but he was competing for the ball nonetheless.

#34:  Author: notsoLocation: Worth PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:58 pm
    —
Simon wrote:
josefk wrote:
Me and my lad both called it offside, no deliberate playing of the ball so still offside. I don't think it's difficult to call either, only an absolute lunatic would try to play a back header in that situation and I don't think I've ever seen a defender play a safety header in the position. But that's football, nobody gets it all right all the time.


I don't really follow how if a defender jumps off the ground in an attempt to win a ball it can be accidental. OK it didn't go where he wanted it to, but he was competing for the ball nonetheless.


I have to say that I was thinking along the same lines. Definitely not accidental that he headed the ball, it was only accidental as to where the ball ended up.

#35:  Author: Paulc222 PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:07 pm
    —
JB wrote:
Webb is quite right, think about when the pass is played forward and it takes a deflection on its way through. uUp goes the flag for offside and, despite some people shouting "but it came off their bloke!!", it's because of where the offside player was when the pass was played, and indeed because the opposing player's touch was not intentional, that the player is offside.

Yesterday, if the defender's header could be deemed to be accidental, then shouldn't the offside/onside decision be based on where Vardy was when Sturridge played the initial cross in ?


I believe so, but I think it might be about the definition of an "accidental" touch. I believe that the defender intended to head the ball - though obviously not in that direction i.e. he messed up his header. How relevant would it be that he messed up his header due to bodies bustling around him, a slight deflection just before the ball reached him, or being partially unsighted? Would I have a caes for saying that the miscued header falls in the same category as, say, a defender who while being challenged, badly slices his clearance to an attacker who was in an offside position when another attacker crossed the ball?

#36:  Author: Simon PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:59 pm
    —
Paulc222 wrote:
JB wrote:
Webb is quite right, think about when the pass is played forward and it takes a deflection on its way through. uUp goes the flag for offside and, despite some people shouting "but it came off their bloke!!", it's because of where the offside player was when the pass was played, and indeed because the opposing player's touch was not intentional, that the player is offside.

Yesterday, if the defender's header could be deemed to be accidental, then shouldn't the offside/onside decision be based on where Vardy was when Sturridge played the initial cross in ?


I believe so, but I think it might be about the definition of an "accidental" touch. I believe that the defender intended to head the ball - though obviously not in that direction i.e. he messed up his header. How relevant would it be that he messed up his header due to bodies bustling around him, a slight deflection just before the ball reached him, or being partially unsighted? Would I have a caes for saying that the miscued header falls in the same category as, say, a defender who while being challenged, badly slices his clearance to an attacker who was in an offside position when another attacker crossed the ball?


I think we are over analysing.

If someone kicks the ball and it hits a defender who was not trying to play the ball, then I can see it is accidental.

However if a defender is jumping, both feet off the ground, competing for the ball then there is no accident there.

It's a bit like the debate over 'interfering with play'. What did Cloughie used to say, if a centre forward isn't interfering with play in the opposition box he shouldn't be on the pitch.

Sounds like the ref used common sense to me. I must say the reffing has been pretty good so far, the best I can remember at a major finals for some time.

#37:  Author: Paulc222 PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:23 pm
    —
Simon wrote:


Sounds like the ref used common sense to me. I must say the reffing has been pretty good so far, the best I can remember at a major finals for some time.


I agree that the standard has been high. Well done to the guys in the middle, and those assisting them.

#38:  Author: josefkLocation: West Stand A90 PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:41 pm
    —
thad wrote:
Josef, genuine question: I know the laws have changed and there is a concept of "being active" nowadays, but at what stage - in your opinion - was he offside..?

Subjectively was it only when he actually touched the ball? or in the build-up when he was ahead of the play and in the line of sight of the Welsh keeper, it didn't get flagged, but quite often seems to at that point...?

scratch


To me he was technically offside when the ball was played, clearly offside by a good yard but wasn't in a penal position at that time. He would have been in the line of sight of the keeper but was not causing any change of position or evasive action by the keeper so wasn't interfering.

The header was deliberate to the extent that no supernatural force caused the player to rise in the air, however, such as if a player goes to kick a ball and rather then kick it upfield he miskicks and it flies behind there was an attempt to play the ball but only a supporter of the other side could think it was a deliberate pass backwards negating any player in an offside position.

Therefore when the ball is played by the british player he became offside, the act of heading was deliberate by the welshman, where it ended up was not.

The active part is made deliberately confusing I feel but it really does revolve around the PIG of offside, only when one of the elements of the PIG is completed does the offence go from being technical to a penal one. That active element is why you get what so many supporters complain about "late" flags for, it's a shame as the rule of thumb is a late flag is a great flag as you don't interrupt play without a real need.

On a good note, and I don't recall the game, but it was interesting to see the offside in your own half law change being implemented in one game.

#39:  Author: josefkLocation: West Stand A90 PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:45 pm
    —
Paulc222 wrote:
Simon wrote:


Sounds like the ref used common sense to me. I must say the reffing has been pretty good so far, the best I can remember at a major finals for some time.


I agree that the standard has been high. Well done to the guys in the middle, and those assisting them.


I think the standard has been great. Will reserve judgement on Clatts as he was effing and blinding at me and reckoned I shouldn't be let loose with a camera last month. Blooming geordie oik!!

#40:  Author: thad PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:39 pm
    —
josefk wrote:
thad wrote:
Josef, genuine question: I know the laws have changed and there is a concept of "being active" nowadays, but at what stage - in your opinion - was he offside..?

Subjectively was it only when he actually touched the ball? or in the build-up when he was ahead of the play and in the line of sight of the Welsh keeper, it didn't get flagged, but quite often seems to at that point...?

scratch


To me he was technically offside when the ball was played, clearly offside by a good yard but wasn't in a penal position at that time. He would have been in the line of sight of the keeper but was not causing any change of position or evasive action by the keeper so wasn't interfering.

Thanks for that Josef, shame those rules weren't in place when I was playing, I was actually quite similar to Vardy... standing offside & mis-kicking it into the net from a few feet out.

#41:  Author: IanLocation: The Parish of Rusper PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:13 pm
    —
josefk wrote:
thad wrote:
Josef, genuine question: I know the laws have changed and there is a concept of "being active" nowadays, but at what stage - in your opinion - was he offside..?

Subjectively was it only when he actually touched the ball? or in the build-up when he was ahead of the play and in the line of sight of the Welsh keeper, it didn't get flagged, but quite often seems to at that point...?

scratch


To me he was technically offside when the ball was played, clearly offside by a good yard but wasn't in a penal position at that time. He would have been in the line of sight of the keeper but was not causing any change of position or evasive action by the keeper so wasn't interfering.

The header was deliberate to the extent that no supernatural force caused the player to rise in the air, however, such as if a player goes to kick a ball and rather then kick it upfield he miskicks and it flies behind there was an attempt to play the ball but only a supporter of the other side could think it was a deliberate pass backwards negating any player in an offside position.

Therefore when the ball is played by the british player he became offside, the act of heading was deliberate by the welshman, where it ended up was not.

The active part is made deliberately confusing I feel but it really does revolve around the PIG of offside, only when one of the elements of the PIG is completed does the offence go from being technical to a penal one. That active element is why you get what so many supporters complain about "late" flags for, it's a shame as the rule of thumb is a late flag is a great flag as you don't interrupt play without a real need.

On a good note, and I don't recall the game, but it was interesting to see the offside in your own half law change being implemented in one game.


When the ball was played by the last England player (Sturridge?) NO England player was in an offside position. Do a freezeframe.



CTFC.net Fans Forum -> -> Talk football


output generated using printer-friendly topic mod. All times are GMT + 1 Hour

Page 1 of 1

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group