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Dive another day...
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thad
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Dive another day... Reply with quote

Diving bans: Football Association considers introducing retrospective bans
Quote:
The Football Association is looking at introducing retrospective bans to English football for players who dive or feign injury.

Officials will go on a fact-finding trip to Scotland, where retrospective bans are already used.

In England, players are currently only given retrospective bans for incidents of violent conduct.

It is understood a rule change would require agreement from all football governing bodies in England.

They can start with this cheating scumbag... player pushes him away for hanging onto his shirt... next thing you know the *beep* is rolling on the floor holding his "injured" face... absolute piece of *beep*..!
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Alun
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About time.

If they hit the first half a dozen offenders with 10 game bans the problem will be eradicated by the following weekend.

The commentators also need squaring up. The ex players always find a way to condone and justify the most outrageous diving and over-acting, embarrassing themselves into the bargain.

It's worse the higher up you go. I often put Premier League football on the TV and within 10 mins I'm totally disengaged due to the continuous cheating in all it's formats.
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thad
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alun wrote:
The ex players always find a way to condone and justify the most outrageous diving and over-acting, embarrassing themselves into the bargain..

Spot on, it is always "There was contact and he had every right to hit the deck there"... which seems to ignore that it is a contact sport and players should be sent to the deck, not propel themselves there... it certainly isn't up to a player to decide if he "has every right", because he never has..!

Might be helped if Refs thought more about giving indirect free-kicks in the area, there seems to be a mindset that any contact in the box is either a penalty kick or a dive, often it is neither... but obstruction never seems to be considered as an option anymore..?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm all for this, especially as McLeod no longer plays for us Smile

Seriously, such action is long overdue. The clampdown on players pulling and shoving at corners has caused that problem to ease. Hopefully, retrospective bans for divers will work too. It may need more than a one-game ban though. I would rate it worse than a DOGSO but less than violent conduct. Maybe a two-match ban with more for subsequent offences?
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Red, Red & Red
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im split on this.....principlly if justice can be done.....however im against video evidence...refs eyes are an important part of the game
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Simon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even ex referees like Mark Halsey and Keith Hackett are saying refereeing is poor, and sorry to say it's the same at our level.

Completely inconsistent and many refs seem to think we have paid to watch them.
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josefk
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thad wrote:
Alun wrote:
The ex players always find a way to condone and justify the most outrageous diving and over-acting, embarrassing themselves into the bargain..

Spot on, it is always "There was contact and he had every right to hit the deck there"... which seems to ignore that it is a contact sport and players should be sent to the deck, not propel themselves there... it certainly isn't up to a player to decide if he "has every right", because he never has..!

Might be helped if Refs thought more about giving indirect free-kicks in the area, there seems to be a mindset that any contact in the box is either a penalty kick or a dive, often it is neither... but obstruction never seems to be considered as an option anymore..?


Part of the problem Thad is managing the game and most of the dimwits on the pitch don't know what should be an indirect free kick or direct (penalty). The ones in the crowd are normally even worse. Last Saturday my lad had manager and trainer screaming for a penalty following a high foot. In their little world dangerous play was a direct kick.

I agree with you that obstruction is rarely given. I'm starting to think that it isn't as common as it once was. Between two reffing lads I haven't seen an obstruction I would give this season. About 45 games in all so far.

Not sure though that using Hackett and Halsey as examples of people complaining about refs who have been Refs. Hackett lost his role and influence and has an axe to grind and MH for some very real reasons has some very big grievances against the refereeing world.

Depends though as well who is to make the viewing panel up. If it's anything like County FA hearing panels then I wouldn't trust them to judge a women's institute cake baking competition. Obviously it would be above county level but that's no guarantee of getting anything right.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon wrote:
Even ex referees like Mark Halsey and Keith Hackett are saying refereeing is poor, and sorry to say it's the same at our level.

Completely inconsistent and many refs seem to think we have paid to watch them.
we may not specifically pay to watch them but they are part of the game. The more video takes over the person in the game the more i feel we lose the game
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thad
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

josefk wrote:
Depends though as well who is to make the viewing panel up. If it's anything like County FA hearing panels then I wouldn't trust them to judge a women's institute cake baking competition. Obviously it would be above county level but that's no guarantee of getting anything right.

I always make that same point, even retrospectively it is still a subjective interpretation. You only have to watch a few football shows to see that after countless slo-mo reruns, opinions can still be diametrically at odds.

The Snodgrass incident was mentioned in the article, I personally think he was taking evasive action for a challenge that at the last instant never arrived... we've all done it, flinched in anticipation.. the ref made a genuine mistake but the player still had an opportunity to own up, however can you expect any professional footballer to throw away an advantage they have been handed..?

dontknow

In many ways retrospective punishment can compound an injustice, insofar as if it is deemed that a player cheated to get a match-winning penalty, the team who lost... have still lost...

...and inevitably, won't this move lead to that becoming the next bone of contention...!
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ant
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

josefk wrote:

Not sure though that using Hackett and Halsey as examples of people complaining about refs who have been Refs. Hackett lost his role and influence and has an axe to grind and MH for some very real reasons has some very big grievances against the refereeing world.


Fully agree- And also worth noting that for Halsey to comment on the quality of refereeing is incredibly ironic

Halsey was sacked by BT sport simply because he would always suggest the refs weren't up to the standard of him. He was a very poor addition to BT Sports line up when they launched- thankfully they've replaced him with the excellent Howard Webb
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josefk
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thad wrote:
josefk wrote:
Depends though as well who is to make the viewing panel up. If it's anything like County FA hearing panels then I wouldn't trust them to judge a women's institute cake baking competition. Obviously it would be above county level but that's no guarantee of getting anything right.

I always make that same point, even retrospectively it is still a subjective interpretation. You only have to watch a few football shows to see that after countless slo-mo reruns, opinions can still be diametrically at odds.

The Snodgrass incident was mentioned in the article, I personally think he was taking evasive action for a challenge that at the last instant never arrived... we've all done it, flinched in anticipation.. the ref made a genuine mistake but the player still had an opportunity to own up, however can you expect any professional footballer to throw away an advantage they have been handed..?

dontknow

In many ways retrospective punishment can compound an injustice, insofar as if it is deemed that a player cheated to get a match-winning penalty, the team who lost... have still lost...

...and inevitably, won't this move lead to that becoming the next bone of contention...!


I never saw the incident you mention in the article Thad as I've stopped watching football on the TV. The language in the article also shows what is wrong with football. "Winning a penalty", what does that mean anyway if not that the player is setting out to get the penalty. Ties in with the "any contact" BS.

Doesn't say how the cases are to be referred though. Will there need to be a set number of cameras per ground because if not you don't have consistency in application, and everyone likes consistency.

My gut feeling is if it comes in then the Hulls and Burnleys of the game will get action taken against their players. Arsenal with an important champions league game coming up may have a "not proven" as the verdict.

I see it says FIFA are also looking at this. If all UK football authorities pass this then it will come in as the IFAB will pass it through. FIFA implements what the IFAB states it needs to. That's what made the poppy outrage slightly amusing.
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Born in Crawley Hospital
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diving and play acting has long been the elephant in the room for football. The authorities had several opportunities to sort this out and have bottled it. Exhibit A: Rivaldo - 'ball in the face' at France '98. Pathetic fine.

It's a little contradictory though that if it's spotted on the pitch it's a yellow, if it's spotted later it's a two game ban. This needs ironing out. I would totally support straight reds, particularly if it's in the box.

Also, any catch Newport's Zoko win a very soft penalty at the weekend? Another cheating scumbag.
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Ian
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thad wrote:
In many ways retrospective punishment can compound an injustice, insofar as if it is deemed that a player cheated to get a match-winning penalty, the team who lost... have still lost...

...and inevitably, won't this move lead to that becoming the next bone of contention...!


Putting a murderer away for life could be argued similarly. Whats the point? his victim is still dead!

But it makes others think twice about doing the same thing.

It's about the good of the game as a whole, not righting one specific wrong.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

josefk wrote:
My gut feeling is if it comes in then the Hulls and Burnleys of the game will get action taken against their players. Arsenal with an important champions league game coming up may have a "not proven" as the verdict.


Is a CL game relevant though? Do domestic bans carry forward into CL matches? I know CL bans don't apply to domestic matches.
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Phil T
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:
Also, any catch Newport's Zoko win a very soft penalty at the weekend? Another cheating scumbag.


Yes, very soft.

And Tubbs last night, chap pulled his arm and he went down as if he had been shot........ in the old days a forward would have pulled himself free and carried on.

Technically both penalties, but sad indictments of the game.
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