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Bloke gets drunk at wedding reception...
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fatbear
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Gazza I would add the 1997 qualifier in Rome where he was superb, kept the ball for most of the match and ensuring we got the 0-0 draw to qualify and send the Italians to the play-offs

I would even rate Scholes above Rooney
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ant
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:
Based on the replies, I have been proven correct: Rooney is the most successful Englsnf player since 1966.

The options raised are laughable.

Gazza - I'll give him Italia '90 but other that that a massive failure. Had two decent games in Euro 96 and went mental in the 1991 cup final. Bottled coming back to England

Lineker - Two decent World Cups, a failure abroad

Shearer - one title, quit England early

Owen - one good goal in the World Cup and an FA Cup

These players don't hold a candle to Rooney in terms of appearances, goals or honours. Not even close.



My assumption was based on importance for England- hence my insistence on Gascoigne. Which as you rightly point out, he was more outstanding for than Rooney. Half the number of games and twice as many match winning ones - especially in really important World Cup and European championships finals

As for Lineker being a failure abroad - I think you'll find he won trophies abroad - Rooney didn't even make it to Europe. He also won the Golden Boot in Europe and is still our top scorer in World Cup finals.

So stop the patronising *beep* and concentrate on facts. Rooney is a good player and his achievements are many - but his international career falls short of what it could have been
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Sussex Boy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to the original point of the thread...

Who really cares about a rich footballer enjoying themselves the exact same way 85% of the population would do???
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NorthgateRed
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sussex Boy wrote:
Back to the original point of the thread...

Who really cares about a rich footballer enjoying themselves the exact same way 85% of the population would do???

Idiots do. It's a non-story. If it had been Eric Dier, for example, , I don't suppose anyone would have noticed, let alone cared.
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thad
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sussex Boy wrote:
Back to the original point of the thread...

Who really cares about a rich footballer enjoying themselves the exact same way 85% of the population would do???

Totally agree... but I'd take it further...

...the 96 squad bonded in that "dentists chair" in Hong Kong, of course the media pilloried them but performances were not in any way adversely affected.

Since then, England have displayed a joyless, inhibited and frustrated approach to matches... and I cannot help feeling that a joyless, inhibited & frustrated experience during their down time in a team hotel is a contributory factor...

scratch

...and I believe that the alternative story would have been "Petulant Rooney snubs disappointed fans at wedding reception".

We all need to grow up.
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Ian
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon wrote:
Shilton was a world class player but didn't win a bucket of honours.


A League Championship and two European cups!
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ant
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thad wrote:
Sussex Boy wrote:
Back to the original point of the thread...

Who really cares about a rich footballer enjoying themselves the exact same way 85% of the population would do???

Totally agree... but I'd take it further...

...the 96 squad bonded in that "dentists chair" in Hong Kong, of course the media pilloried them but performances were not in any way adversely affected..


According to my sources, at a press briefing with Gareth Southgate he was asked whether events like the dentists chair could happen now (20 years on and remembering he was part of the squad)


No was his emphatic reply - the world has changed
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thad
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ant wrote:
thad wrote:
Sussex Boy wrote:
Back to the original point of the thread...

Who really cares about a rich footballer enjoying themselves the exact same way 85% of the population would do???

Totally agree... but I'd take it further...

...the 96 squad bonded in that "dentists chair" in Hong Kong, of course the media pilloried them but performances were not in any way adversely affected..

According to my sources, at a press briefing with Gareth Southgate he was asked whether events like the dentists chair could happen now (20 years on and remembering he was part of the squad)

No was his emphatic reply - the world has changed

The world has changed.. but instead of pushing on from that tournament the England team have gone backwards and withdrawn into their shell.

Compare this sad affair with the media coverage of the ladies hockey team, being intoxicated & boisterous was regarded as a strong feature of their charm... but you were left with no doubts about their team ethos..!
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Born in Crawley Hospital
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a lot of people on here have come on here and missed my point.

Breathe before contributing.

I said Rooney has had the best career for an Englishman since 1966, not just in the international sphere, but as a whole.

People have made mention of the odd player having a great game here, a good season there, but no Englishman has remained as consistent and as available as Wayne Rooney has for both club and country. It's just a fact. The stats don't lie.

For club he's been the talisman for 12 years. Simon made the ridiculous comment that he was being carried by other, but you don't make that team and stay there without being something special. Simon said it was the likes of Beckham who won the trophies and when they went away so did the trophies. Well, Beckham and Rooney never played for the same club at the same time. Beckham won 6 titles and won one European Cup. Rooney's won 5 titles and won one European Cup, losing in two other finals. Just because it's your perception, Simon, doesn't make it true. The real issue of why United haven't been successful is due to the departure of Alex Ferguson.

On the international stage no-one has scored consistently for England since Michael Owen. His last England goal was over nine years ago. Who else would have stepped up and scored all the goals if it wasn't for Wayne Rooney? It's easy to say "someone would've" in Hypothetical Land. But who? Rooney has scored 37 COMPETITIVE England goals (which is the all-time record and a better ratio than Charlton). Of those still eligible to play for England, the next in line is Jermain Defoe on 13.

Remove the hate-tinted glasses and try and view his career objectively. If it were any other player then he'd be lauded as the greatest.
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Mr.T.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:
I think a lot of people on here have come on here and missed my point.

Breathe before contributing.

I said Rooney has had the best career for an Englishman since 1966, not just in the international sphere, but as a whole.

People have made mention of the odd player having a great game here, a good season there, but no Englishman has remained as consistent and as available as Wayne Rooney has for both club and country. It's just a fact. The stats don't lie.

For club he's been the talisman for 12 years. Simon made the ridiculous comment that he was being carried by other, but you don't make that team and stay there without being something special. Simon said it was the likes of Beckham who won the trophies and when they went away so did the trophies. Well, Beckham and Rooney never played for the same club at the same time. Beckham won 6 titles and won one European Cup. Rooney's won 5 titles and won one European Cup, losing in two other finals. Just because it's your perception, Simon, doesn't make it true. The real issue of why United haven't been successful is due to the departure of Alex Ferguson.

On the international stage no-one has scored consistently for England since Michael Owen. His last England goal was over nine years ago. Who else would have stepped up and scored all the goals if it wasn't for Wayne Rooney? It's easy to say "someone would've" in Hypothetical Land. But who? Rooney has scored 37 COMPETITIVE England goals (which is the all-time record and a better ratio than Charlton). Of those still eligible to play for England, the next in line is Jermain Defoe on 13.

Remove the hate-tinted glasses and try and view his career objectively. If it were any other player then he'd be lauded as the greatest.

But how many of those goals were in tounament play?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.T. wrote:
Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:
I think a lot of people on here have come on here and missed my point.

Breathe before contributing.

I said Rooney has had the best career for an Englishman since 1966, not just in the international sphere, but as a whole.

People have made mention of the odd player having a great game here, a good season there, but no Englishman has remained as consistent and as available as Wayne Rooney has for both club and country. It's just a fact. The stats don't lie.

For club he's been the talisman for 12 years. Simon made the ridiculous comment that he was being carried by other, but you don't make that team and stay there without being something special. Simon said it was the likes of Beckham who won the trophies and when they went away so did the trophies. Well, Beckham and Rooney never played for the same club at the same time. Beckham won 6 titles and won one European Cup. Rooney's won 5 titles and won one European Cup, losing in two other finals. Just because it's your perception, Simon, doesn't make it true. The real issue of why United haven't been successful is due to the departure of Alex Ferguson.

On the international stage no-one has scored consistently for England since Michael Owen. His last England goal was over nine years ago. Who else would have stepped up and scored all the goals if it wasn't for Wayne Rooney? It's easy to say "someone would've" in Hypothetical Land. But who? Rooney has scored 37 COMPETITIVE England goals (which is the all-time record and a better ratio than Charlton). Of those still eligible to play for England, the next in line is Jermain Defoe on 13.

Remove the hate-tinted glasses and try and view his career objectively. If it were any other player then he'd be lauded as the greatest.

But how many of those goals were in tounament play?


Not many. But we wouldn't have been there without him.
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NorthgateRed
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:


People have made mention of the odd player having a great game here, a good season there, but no Englishman has remained as consistent and as available as Wayne Rooney has for both club and country. It's just a fact. The stats don't lie.

Steven Gerrard - Liverpool and England
Frank Lampard, John Terry - Chelsea and England

All considered talismen for their respective clubs. All have many caps for England. All have won trophies at club level. At international level, they have achieved the same as Rooney - nothing.

So your pronouncement is a bit wrong. Not hating on Rooney, just pointing out your 'facts' are a bit in error. If Rooney is truly to be considered world class, he would have to have had success on the international stage. He hasn't. He's not even played that well or scored much in major finals.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NorthgateRed wrote:
Born in Crawley Hospital wrote:


People have made mention of the odd player having a great game here, a good season there, but no Englishman has remained as consistent and as available as Wayne Rooney has for both club and country. It's just a fact. The stats don't lie.

Steven Gerrard - Liverpool and England
Frank Lampard, John Terry - Chelsea and England

All considered talismen for their respective clubs. All have many caps for England. All have won trophies at club level. At international level, they have achieved the same as Rooney - nothing.

So your pronouncement is a bit wrong. Not hating on Rooney, just pointing out your 'facts' are a bit in error. If Rooney is truly to be considered world class, he would have to have had success on the international stage. He hasn't. He's not even played that well or scored much in major finals.


My 'pronouncement', as you put it, was that Rooney's had the best career for an Englishman since 1966.

In every possible category he's had s better career than Lampard and Gerrard.
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thad
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enough of these so-called "facts"... we live in post-truth times and so far they have proven nothing definitive... cos everyone is avoiding the actual reality of the matter... pay attention...

...the real reason that Wayne Rooney receives - fair or unfair - criticism boils down to the simple basis that he is... a fat Scouse *beep* who plays for Manure Shyted... end-of...!

Shocked

ps. I initiated this thread because I felt the media treatment of him was deplorable.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thad wrote:
. I initiated this thread because I felt the media treatment of him was deplorable.


Totally agree with that sentiment, Thad.
Even if his footballing prowess is in decline, for now he's still a player that most teams would rather have in their team than have to play against.
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